Losing 50kg to Bodybuilder to Startup Founder with Amira Gheraselgoum

Philippe (00:00)
Welcome Amira to the pods. Thanks for you to, thanks for joining. Tell us about yourself and your new business, DAT Athletes.

Amira Gheraselgoum (00:08)
It's a bit of a long story, a bit of a funny one. It started in an Uber and then here we are. There's a lot of things that you have to discover about this project, but I'll tell you more about me and then you'll get to how I ended up with that athlete. Yeah. All right. So what do you want to know?

Philippe (00:14)
What?

Sounds good.

Well, tell us a bit more about, you know, like how did you end up with this idea in this new business and maybe sort of like a little bit of the background behind that. And I think like this probably is a lot of stuff to unpack.

Amira Gheraselgoum (00:40)
Yeah, so the idea is very simple, is the Uber of health and fitness is basically helping you achieve. Can we start all over again? Because I have a question that is bothering me. Yeah, so do I have to look at the camera because you are up on my screen and I don't know for your for your it was fine.

Philippe (00:51)
What question?

Okay. Okay. Yeah. It's probably easier to, if you look at the camera or if, yeah, you have to be honest, it doesn't really matter because, like at the end, it's more about the content and you know, the thing.

Amira Gheraselgoum (01:14)
Okay, because

I'm looking up and it's a little bit weird now. It's all right. Okay, I'll tell you I'll tell you about my idea. So

Philippe (01:16)
Hahaha!

Amira Gheraselgoum (01:22)
I'm the founder of DAT Athlete. DAT Athlete is a mobile app that helps you connect to driven professionals in the fitness industry. So personal trainers, also nutritionists and maybe some psychologists if you have any issues with emotional eating. But it also helps you to manage your diet. So we use artificial intelligence to create a meal plan based on your dietary preferences, your allergies and things like that. But also you can actually order the food from our meal partners like in Australia and things like that.

Philippe (01:52)
Well, okay.

Wow.

Okay. Interesting. It's I guess like, how did you, were you always in sort of like the, you know, personal trainer or fitness, you know, industry before, like how did you end up in that thing?

Amira Gheraselgoum (02:10)
Not at all. I actually came a long way. I lost 50 kilos over the last eight years. And I've been through all the struggles that everyone is being challenged with whenever they try to get in a healthier lifestyle. yeah, it's a very, long journey.

Philippe (02:14)
Wow.

So you, you lost for 50 kilos, you said, like, uh, is that during the eight years or like, was it like just the last two years where you're like, Oh, like, like did some exercise. What's that? us about your journey about, know, losing this amount of kilos.

Amira Gheraselgoum (02:45)
Well, I've always been a little bit chubby. Like I was born chubby and then I've used food as a coping mechanism for a very long time. So I got to a stage where I got so heavy. I was about 107 kilos and then I lost 50 kilos total over the last eight years. I started by doing it on my own. So I lost 35 kilos by, you know, just dieting, crash dieting, I should say. And then I yo-yo very fast because I was not doing it properly.

And at some point I was like, let's do it properly for once and let's become an athlete and see how they actually change their mindset into competing against all the people and achieving whatever goal they have put in their mindset. And then just giving themselves, themselves everything that they need to achieve it. So I decided to bodybuild last year in November. And during this one year of bodybuilding, lost about 20 kilos.

Philippe (03:19)
Mm-hmm.

Amira Gheraselgoum (03:45)
and I became Miss Wellness, and I'm second in the world in my category.

Philippe (03:47)
Wow. Okay. Miss wellness. Like, okay. Tell us a bit about sort of like the, how did you prepare for this? what's like, you saw it about like, like the athlete mindset and all these different things. Yeah. Tell us a bit more about that.

Amira Gheraselgoum (04:05)
Yeah, so if you look at research in the sports and health industry, there is very little that is made about women. And I do have an issue with my knee. And every time I was going to see a doctor, they kept on telling me the same thing. Like, you were born like this, now just cope with it. And I was like, that couldn't be an answer. Like, I'm from a scientific field, and I like science to be science, to be exact, and to provide me with answers, not to tell me you were born like this, and then we cannot do anything.

So I started thinking who out there gets injured very badly, like ACL injuries, and still comes back on the field and do all of their matches and everything? Well, football players. So I thought, all right, I'm going to become an athlete. But obviously, I'm not a soccer player or a football player. So I decided to go another way. I decided to start bodybuilding to understand the body, the human body, how it works, up to what would one millic-

Philippe (04:46)
Mhm. Yeah.

Amira Gheraselgoum (05:05)
of salt change to your actual physique or your body right and this is what bodybuilders do they control absolutely everything and understand absolutely everything that has an impact on their body including their sleep their magnesium and any supplement that they have to take so I started this bodybuilding journey in November last year thinking that this industry was our head and it actually is when it comes to planning

And then I hired a really nice personal trainer. absolutely love this woman. She's, she's everything for me. She's like my hero. She, saw me crying and smiling and everything basically. And basically all of these professional personal trainers are using Excel sheets because the mobile apps out there are not

Philippe (05:44)
Mm-hmm.

Amira Gheraselgoum (05:58)
up to their standards. They're not very... as I say, they are not very flexible with what they can do. So I thought, wow, so professional athletes that know exactly what's happening with their bodies and everything they have to do, they're using Excel sheets? Really? Seriously? I'm an AI engineer. I've been a data scientist for several years, worked for very big brands. And every time I was like, if it's an Excel sheet, I'm not working on it.

Philippe (06:05)
Yeah. Hahaha

Amira Gheraselgoum (06:28)
Right now, I was facing this Excel sheet every day and I had to fill it every day. And I was like, my God, we need a solution for that. And then I saw the data that they were tracking and I looked at research in the sports and medical industry. And I realized these athletes that are doing it just, you know, to better themselves, performance in their sports are doing it in such a precise way that even science. researchers are not doing it this way and they have these data. For me, a data scientist like me, this data is pretty much gold.

Philippe (07:06)
And what did you learn, I guess, through that process? like, you you talk about a gram of salt, like, what does it do? Like a change of a gram of salt to, to your body.

Amira Gheraselgoum (07:17)
Yeah, I was once called it. that was a day, it was two days before my show. And I don't know why I just got very stressed out because everything that was going on with the startup journey and everything. And I was taking pictures and videos from my personal trainer to see how my body looks like two hours after eating food. And so I sent her the pictures and she was like, what's going on? What do you mean? And she was like,

Are you like, did something happen? Are you stressed or something? And I was like, yes, a little bit, but I didn't think of it that much. She could visually see that I was stressed and that my parcial level was high. So I was scolded and I had to lay down, put my feet against the wall and eat 30 grams of rice. So.

Philippe (08:03)
Wait, what? Wait, wait, just stop a bit. What is this, put your feet on the, like, up and eating 30 grams of rice. What does it do to your body? Like.

Amira Gheraselgoum (08:12)
It's pretty complex, but basically when I was depleted, so I had a very low body fat percentage, pretty much everything was visible in my body. So if I retain too much water, if I don't have enough water, if I'm dehydrated, everything is visible. So my muscles, because I was depleted and then I got stressed out, they looked depleted.

It looked like I had a six pack of abs but if you just blow on me, I'll fly away. So apparently this is what it was looking like, at least to her. And I was just like, I'm just, you know, living my life and being stressed as a rule. And no, it actually changes everything. So just telling me to basically rest. Just.

Philippe (08:42)
Hahaha

Amira Gheraselgoum (08:58)
focus on what I can control rather than stress out on things that I cannot control and having rice because I needed carbs to fill up my muscles because carbs actually fill up your muscles. They retain water where it needs to be and then your glycogen get restored. So glycogen is a source that you have in your body, is a limited source. And this is what will change visually your body, especially in the last couple of days before competition.

Philippe (09:02)
Yeah. Hahaha!

Amira Gheraselgoum (09:25)
if you overspill your glycogen levels so you have too much glycogen in your body you look bloated.

Philippe (09:31)
Right. Wow. Okay.

Okay. And what are the things that you've learned, I guess, with this sort of like bodybuilding training, you know, about the body and like how it works? What is the, like, you know, there's a lot of misconception around, you know, social media. What would you say like, is one of the biggest?

Amira Gheraselgoum (09:49)
It was a very challenging time because I started bodybuilding and my startup journey pretty much at the same time and everyone was advising me to do one or the other. In fact, it works perfectly together.

You have the mindset of a bodybuilder, you have the mindset of a startup founder. Because first things first, I was meal prepping my meals. So that was a lot of decisions that I was removing from my day. And all the decisions that I was taking and all the energy that I was spending on taking decisions was what feature I'm going to add to my app or how I'm going to change the business model to make it a little bit better. These were the decisions that I was taking on a daily basis, not, oh, I have potatoes and I can make like 10 different recipes with potatoes. So that was one thing, but also bodybuilding, it challenges you mentally and it teaches you that there are things that you can control and things that you cannot control and you have to focus on what you can control.

Philippe (10:35)
Yeah, yeah,

Amira Gheraselgoum (10:53)
with the startup is something that you have to consistently repeat to yourself. You cannot force someone to invest in you or to believe in your dream, but you can control what you do to showcase it better, to explain it better.

Philippe (11:02)
Mm-hmm.

Wow. Okay. That's very interesting. Like the, the link between bodybuilding and, and startup, like, you know, founder, guess, like, what are the things that you, talked about, like meal prep that's like, you know, removing your decision, uh, every day, like what are the things that you think that's really like, align well with, uh, you know, being a startup founder, uh, that's, you know, coming from the bodybuilding sort of like you know, experience.

Amira Gheraselgoum (11:40)
So a lot of people tell me, I don't like to go to the gym. You don't have to like to go to the gym. You have to do the job. You like to look nice, to be healthy, to be able to run. This is what you like. This is the intention that you're after. But then the attitude, like not liking to go to the gym. that's gonna have an impact on your behavior. If you're like, I don't like to go to the gym, you're not gonna go to the gym. But if you have this mindset, just like, for me it's the same, right?

I don't necessarily want to work hard, but I still want to see my dream mobile app out there and work the way that I see and envision it. So I still have to do this job. And people that don't like to go to the gym, but still go to the gym and go with the mindset of I have to do what I have to do, not to enjoy the process. So they go inside the gym, they follow the plan that their personal trainer created. They go in, they go out. This is why we usually say the

Philippe (12:44)
Mm-hmm.

Amira Gheraselgoum (12:45)
mentality of an athlete is that you go in, go out, you go, you do it and you leave. You don't have to overthink it. Start up, if you start thinking about all the risks that you're taking and all the difficulties you're going to be facing, all the people that will tell you no, especially when you're talking to investors or all the mindsets that are going to be against your idea, that won't believe in your dream, then you're not going to get anything done.

Philippe (12:50)
Hmm.

Amira Gheraselgoum (13:14)
You have to keep the goal in mind and just follow the process.

Philippe (13:19)
Very interesting. So for someone like me, like, you know, I've been struggling to go to the gym and everything, right? It's like something that's

Is it any hack or anything that can spark sort of like the, you you talk about changing your mindset. It'll be like, can you go in and go out? But I guess like you want to also spark that motivation to go to the gym, but in the first place and then sort of have that discipline to, to, to go, right? What would you say like that could help someone, you know, that caught, you know, get up to go to the gym.

Amira Gheraselgoum (13:52)
I usually hate myself for doing this to myself, but I still do it. So the thing is, I, I'm very respectful of other people's time. And I know that this is a good trait, but it's also a weakness. So in my case, I take a personal trainer. I book in and say that I'm going to do my trainings and that I have to do them because I already said that I was going to do it.

Philippe (14:12)
Yeah. Hahaha!

Amira Gheraselgoum (14:16)
And so I plan it when there is like these five seconds of me being motivated, like I should really go to the gym. that five second, I find a trainer. I take them. I'm like, no, I cannot cancel anymore because I've already said I was going to do it. But also I create a very detailed schedule. So my take on that is that I'm a machine learning expert, right? So.

Philippe (14:26)
Yeah.

Amira Gheraselgoum (14:41)
in machine learning or artificial intelligence, when you're in that industry, you're teaching a machine on how to behave like a human. So you train it. You train it to do the same things again and again and again until it learns that this is the pattern that it has to follow. Your body is the most powerful adaptive machine that you have in hand.

You've been going to school and high school and university with a schedule. You've had this set schedule. You had a lot of diversity in that schedule. Like you had to go to PE class and then mathematics and things like that. Now, when you have a nine to five job or when you work in the same field all the time, you don't have that diversity. So you're already removing a lot of dopamine from your body because you're doing the same thing for hours and hours.

Philippe (15:30)
Yeah, yeah, yeah.

Amira Gheraselgoum (15:32)
And you've been trained to follow a schedule that someone set up for you for so many years. And now you can do whatever you want, except from nine to five. Right. So you're like, I'm just not going to plan anything. Maybe I'll go to the gym this afternoon, or maybe I'll go play tennis. And then you're having already so many decisions to take, and you didn't have all that much dopamine during the whole day because you were doing the same thing again and again. And then you're just going to go back home and

Philippe (15:43)
Yeah.

Amira Gheraselgoum (16:02)
stay on the couch because you didn't really plan it. But if you have a plan, like I personally have a schedule that pretty much says what I have to eat, what time and how much, and also what kind of activities I'm going to be doing. So I have to follow the plan because otherwise it's just too much options.

Philippe (16:04)
Mm-hmm.

Yeah.

Amira Gheraselgoum (16:24)
And I don't really know what to do because I want to do a lot of things, but at the same time, I don't have the time to do everything. So I just follow the plan. I follow the schedule. I plan the days that I work out in, and then I have the days that I'm resting. And I usually plan my social events on that day. Like I'm going to go meet friends or I'm going to have meetup events or things like this or network.

Philippe (16:48)
Wow. And how long

far ahead are you planning your schedule?

Amira Gheraselgoum (16:51)
It's a kind of a template for a week. So it's Monday to Sunday. Like on Sunday morning, I go to the beach. That's something that I like. Because I've moved to Australia because I love going to the beach. And then I found out that I was...

Philippe (17:02)
What?

Yeah.

Amira Gheraselgoum (17:09)
so busy with all the things that I was doing that I was not going to the beach anymore. I was like, I have to plan this because you have to plan also when you're disconnecting, otherwise you're just going to burn out.

Philippe (17:14)
Interesting.

Wow.

Yeah, that's interesting. Yeah, that's very interesting. Your, your way of tackling this in terms of like literally planning everything and just, just followed it. Like, and you talked about dopamine. I really want to hear more about what you, what you're saying, what's your thoughts on that? And you can explain a bit more like, what does it do to your brain and how can we use it? Like I understand it a bit more.

Amira Gheraselgoum (17:45)
Yeah, that's a fun topic because I'm always searching for more dopamine. I'm the kind of person that wakes up in the morning and goes skydiving. So I'm a little bit unpredictable and that's I always schedule because even I don't know what I can, what I'm capable of. I've been working very hard in this industry, like machine learning and artificial intelligence for a very long time. And I worked in an industry that I initially loved. So

Philippe (17:50)
Hahaha

Amira Gheraselgoum (18:14)
I have a degree in mathematics applied to mechanics, so I was working for the car industry. I working for lot of big companies, pretty much worked on a lot of cars that I cannot drive. But I was thinking at some point, all right, I'm doing all of this work for...

Philippe (18:24)
Hahaha

Amira Gheraselgoum (18:31)
10, 12 hours a day. used to work a lot before, which is still the case a little bit, but in a different way. And I thought, but this is not bringing me anything. Like I'm not happy about it. Yes, it's cool. They have really nice cars out there, but I still cannot drive them because I'm a terrible driver. I need to find something that actually makes me happy. And so I created this strategy of what are my strengths, weaknesses, and also my passions. And back then I was already going a lot to the gym. And I was like, okay, so I have a strength in mathematics mechanics, and I love going to the gym. So I can maybe work in a company that creates, I don't know, gym equipment. And I was like, man, that doesn't sound fun. And I was like, wait a second. What is really interesting is the biomechanics. Biomechanics, how your body works, how all of these things, you know, linked together, your sleep, your food, your workout and all of that. And I thought I'm gonna make some research about that and then I'm gonna try to create a company in something that I actually enjoy making research about. And with this I started talking to a lot of people in different fields, in different sports and that brings me a lot of joy, that brings me a lot of dopamine.

but you can be working really hard at the gym, but unless you're competing and you don't have to, you're not competing against anyone. You're competing against yourself. That's something that you have to keep in mind. You are your only enemy and you're only ally lie in a way. So I was like, I'm going to be competing. You know why? Because when I'm competing, I cannot change the date.

Philippe (20:03)
Mm-hmm.

Wow.

Amira Gheraselgoum (20:19)
no matter what's happening out there, I cannot change anything to the fact that the date is going to be set by someone else. And I've already engaged myself in this preparation, which is a very long preparation. You don't just wake up and go to a bodybuilding show.

Philippe (20:33)
Yeah.

Amira Gheraselgoum (20:34)
need to book your tanning at least two days prior. So I was thinking, yeah, I'm going to be competing. And then the competition, that brought me a lot of dopamine because it was something very new. I was challenging myself. I was my only enemy. And yes, up and down.

Philippe (20:53)
Wow. And I guess like, do you think that helped you in your startup journey, sort of like having that sort of competitive, you know, experience on the sides? It's kind of like, it feels like, you know, what you're saying is like, you can, you should seek for something that gives you that sort of competitive, like, you know, dopamine charge, because that will help you in your in your entrepreneur journey.

Amira Gheraselgoum (21:20)
If you don't have dopamine in your entrepreneur journey, I think it's a very long journey and very difficult path that you're choosing, especially if you don't have a goal behind it all. mean, making a mobile app is interesting. I've learned a lot. I've learned.

Philippe (21:26)
Yeah.

Amira Gheraselgoum (21:37)
way more than in the last couple of years working in my industry. But this is not the ultimate goal. And I do have a vision of what I want to bring in this world. So that brings me the most dopamine. And that's what I have to keep reminding myself of. Because a startup, especially when you're the founder, there's a lot of people relying on you.

And there's a lot of things that you have to do that you've never done before. I believe that I'm a good artificial intelligence engineer, but...

I was never faced with doing all the marketing and talking to investors and also being kind of a content creator for the users to understand where I'm coming from. I'm not just someone telling them, you should do this or that to lose weight or gain muscles. I'm someone with a story. I'm someone that have been through all the hardships and challenges that they they are going through at the moment. So all of these different roles and different hats that you have to wear. If you don't have a big goal behind your project, you won't have enough dopamine and you're gonna hate what you're doing.

Philippe (22:52)
Wow, that's very interesting. guess like, you know, if you...

You talked about like, you know, having a personal trainer, and like, you know, getting help you, you had like a personal trainer for your bodybuilding sort of like side hustle, whatever. what's your thoughts on personal trainer and like, you know, the app that you also building as well is kind of like, is it for them or is it for the consumer that like, myself?

Amira Gheraselgoum (23:09)
Yes.

So I have a lot of competitors out there in the market, but they all do an awesome job in one specific field, which is either the fitness industry or nutrition. But no one is connecting the dots. Today with my app, I'm here to connect the dots together to manage everything in one place, to manage your health, your nutrition, your food, your trainings, everything. So.

The reason why I promote hiring a personal trainer is because I've been through the journey, as I said, for eight years. And I started by being on my own personal journey, trying to follow those influencers advice that were pretty bad. And so I restricted myself a lot. I deprived myself. and was eating very little for a human being that is over eight years old at least and I one day I was yo-yo dieting obviously then one day I took a personal trainer in a gym which body shamed me she was like

Oh, you have 36.6 % of body fat. Do you realize how high is that? And I was like, yes, I live in my body. know how. But then, so this person was certified. But the certification in that country is not necessarily a certification that is comparable to other countries, let's say, or to other standards. And then I took an Uber one day. And that's the fun part about the Uber story. took an Uber and my Uber was jacked. It was at the end of COVID. So, the gyms were reopening, but with a lot of limitations, right? So, this Uber was jacked and I was like, whoa, this must be a personal trainer for like some superstars. So, we started chatting and I understood that he was more of a life coach. He was someone that I enjoyed.

Philippe (25:01)
Yeah

Amira Gheraselgoum (25:15)
learning from. It was not only about the physical look and I was thinking maybe I'll just ask him and he said that he was a personal trainer but because of lockdown obviously he couldn't work as a personal trainer so he was doing it and he became my first personal trainer. We started in backyard and I have videos documented on my social media

Philippe (25:33)
Wow.

You

Amira Gheraselgoum (25:39)
We started with no equipment. Back then I had no muscles. I didn't even need any equipment. We started very slowly and then I lost a lot of weight, gained a lot of muscles, but also I changed my mindset towards enjoying being healthy, not looking a certain way, but doing what I had to do and just focusing on getting it done, not...

Philippe (25:43)
Wow.

Amira Gheraselgoum (26:02)
why or what for, but just going in, doing the workout and then leaving. But I was also getting very strong, so I was really happy about that. Once I moved to Australia, I didn't have a personal trainer and I started doing more of kind of a powerlifting because that was a little bit of an equal lifting thing, where I was just able to lift very heavy and I was really proud of myself. But then I realized I was going to the gym, I was not really having consistent performance, like growth.

And also I was not really understanding what I was doing. was just going there thinking, am I squatting or deadlifting today? I'm not really sure. I'll take a decision about how I feel and how I feel is not something that should ever happen in a gym. So I decided to do that bodybuilding journey and I took a personal trainer and I understood a lot of things. I questioned her a lot, not because I don't believe in her skills, it's because I want to understand what I'm doing.

So sometimes she would tell me, I changed this or that. And I was like, why? And I explained also my intention of learning. So now she knows and she explains to me why she's changing things for me to have a better understanding. I'm actually getting my personal trainer certification as well. So it helps a lot.

Philippe (27:17)
Wow.

That's cool. That's cool. And, that's, that's a very interesting, I guess like, are you going with your, your startup journey right now? Like where are you guys?

Amira Gheraselgoum (27:29)
my start-up journey. So the mobile app will be launched very soon. I'm expecting to launch beginning of February. I'm super excited about that. And there is a prototype that is already available and has been available for a while now. But we are hoping to be present at the Melbourne Fitness Expo and Sydney Fitness Expo this year, and also at the Fibo Fitness Expo in Germany and in Saudi Arabia.

Philippe (27:33)
Nice.

Wow, that's exciting. That's exciting. I guess like, tell us a bit more about, know, I'd love to hear more about yourself actually, like, you know, a about your background. You said you were like, you know, in working in machine learning for a really long time. Like, yeah, tell us a bit more like the, the changes, I guess, like, you know, when you were working, I don't know, years ago, back then and to now.

What has been the change in settle that in that space?

Amira Gheraselgoum (28:28)
Well, in that space, now everyone is talking only about generative AI. It's always difficult for us and ML engineers to actually know how to call ourselves because when the machine learning was a hype, we were calling ourselves machine learning engineers, and now it's AI engineers. Before, we used to call ourselves only data scientists, and that was something that was explaining that we do everything.

Philippe (28:45)
Hahaha.

Mm-hmm.

Amira Gheraselgoum (28:54)
So yeah, I started with working in the automotive industry after getting my mathematics degree.

And I started doing natural language processing. So natural language processing is basically teaching computers how to understand the human language. So I worked in that in multiple languages. Then I started working in Czech Republic where I didn't speak Czech, but I was still doing a lot of contract reviews for fraud and corruption analysis in a bank. And later on, I moved to Australia where I started becoming an AI engineer, generative an AI engineer as a self-employed consultant. Actually, DataAthletes started as a consultancy firm in the sports industry and that became a product or a mobile app, if I should say. Yeah, so I was a natural language processing expert and a teacher.

Philippe (29:39)
Yeah.

Wow.

Amira Gheraselgoum (29:51)
in Czech Republic before generative AI became a whole thing. And now that I understand it, I believe that AI should be used, especially generative AI. should be used as a very powerful tool. But in my mobile app, I want to have human trainers on the generative AI will be used for all the things. So generating the meal plan, which is something that is already available on my website, but not to train people because training is very personal, hence personal training. Food is a coping mechanism that leads to childhood obesity and that leads to patterns that people grow up with, so I don't want an AI to manage your emotions and stress. I want someone that you can talk to, that you can explain the situation to, and that can adapt accordingly.

Philippe (30:41)
Is that something that you, you, you, you, felt when you're growing up and stuff? Cause you said that your food was sort of like a coping mechanism, right? So can you share a bit about, about that?

Amira Gheraselgoum (30:53)
Yes, so.

You asked me where I was from earlier, so I'm Algerian-French. I was born in Algeria. At four years old, my best friend, also known as my older sister, became... she got sick. And so at eight years old, we moved to France with my family. But I was a first generation immigrant, illegal immigrant, I should mention. And it was really difficult back then because first I didn't speak French when I arrived in France.

And also, I had a lot of anxiety to manage because I was in a new land where I couldn't speak the language. We were illegally there so we couldn't start any sports because we had to be unnoticed for a little bit. And I couldn't really talk about my feelings because on the other side of the room, my sister was in a very critical state. So at eight years old, you can't fall in, you know, those other coping mechanisms that you have an adult, you don't have a credit card, you're not gonna go and party out your emotions, I don't know how you can do it, or like do yoga classes. Back then, the only thing that I had was food. The only thing that I was enjoying and bringing me the dopamine that we mentioned earlier was to have more chocolate, to have a new recipe with chocolate cake and I don't know, cream on top of it and all of these things. So food became a copying mechanism and that's a pattern that I've had for a very very long time because it started at the age of eight years old and saying that now I'm a bodybuilder and I'm completely healed like my mindset is completely under control is lying because you cannot undo a pattern that you've had for over 20 years in one year of bodybuilding.

it's a constant work on yourself. And that's why I'm building this whole startup is because I know exactly what everyone else is going through because I've been through it. I've improved my situation, but I still have a lot of room to make it better.

Philippe (33:04)
Wow. Well, that's, that's impressive actually, like, so you're saying that, you know, this, this, this, this trauma, I guess, like he never leaves you. And I guess you are you saying that you're using this sort of like, you know, trauma to push you to, create this, new product and this, things to help others.

Amira Gheraselgoum (33:27)
I would just say it doesn't leave you, you start letting go of it pieces by pieces. It takes time though. That's the main part is that it takes time. And I'm using it, I'm not using my trauma, but it brings me a lot of understanding. It brings me a lot of context and also an open mind about why other people are in a situation that they are not happy about.

Philippe (33:31)
Mm-hmm.

Amira Gheraselgoum (33:54)
Because at the end of the day, how your body looks like doesn't matter. Your body is just a transportation for your soul and you're here to better the world, to make an impact. So you can look any type of way, as long as you can go from point A to point B and help people along the way, that's all good. But if you're not happy about your situation, if you don't feel like you're comfortable in your transport for your soul because you cannot be running, or when you take the stairs you're exhausted and things like that then maybe there is something to change but before you start your journey to change try to understand where you're coming from why did you let yourself go in a certain way because when you're eating and you feel full your body gives you that little signal like hey I've had enough but you keep on pushing that limit because you're probably suppressing something else. Are you suppressing emotions? Are you suppressing your stress? Are you anxious? Are you really just a foodie that want to post this on Instagram, even if it makes you feel sick? Ask yourself the right questions. So how did you end up here? Why are you not moving as much as you should do? Is it because you're working too much?

Why are you working too much? Do you have an imposter syndrome that you're trying to cope with? There's a lot of things out there. Everyone has their own reasons of being at a healthy stage. But unless you understand it, it's going to be very difficult for you to change anything to your life. Because it's going to come back and bite you.

Philippe (35:33)
Yeah.

You talked about imposter syndrome. Like have you ever faced sort of like that in your journey and how did you sort of like cope with that?

Amira Gheraselgoum (35:45)
yeah, I had a lot of impulsive syndrome. I had impulsive syndrome in my field of work. And that's very common in my field of work because with everything that's going on with AI, you literally wake up every day and there is a new model, a new thing going on. And it's really hard to keep up as a professional. When you're just reading it for your own personal knowledge, it's completely fine. But when you have to work with it,

Philippe (35:46)
Hahaha

Mmm.

Amira Gheraselgoum (36:10)
and your client is asking you, how come we're not using that model? And you haven't heard of it because it just came up like this morning. You're like, I don't know. I have never heard of it. So it's really hard to keep up in my field of work. So a lot of data scientists have that imposter syndrome. We always feel like we need to catch up and we don't find the time. But also in my sports and health journey, there is something that is called body dysmorphia. So body dysmorphia is when you look at yourself in the mirror and you look, you feel that you are heavier or smaller than you actually are. This is what people with anorexia tend to have. But when you start a journey like mine where you have to lose a lot of weight, it does happen. After some point I was having body dysmorphia, I lost 35 kilos and I thought I'm still heavy and then I lost 50 kilos and I maybe I'm not lean enough and things like that. So I did go through all of these journeys and the first time that I had body dysmorphia I forbid myself from dieting ever again until I feel comfortable in my body no matter the shape or the weight or the form. So when I started my my fitness journey I started it because I wanted to be healthy not to look a certain way and that's because of that, that I was dieting again. But I heard something that is very interesting. I used to feel really bad about my impulsive syndrome. And I heard about someone saying, but if you didn't have the impulsive syndrome, you would have been very comfortable. Would you have done everything that you've done up to this day? And I was like, that is right. because of my imposter syndrome, keep on pushing myself to better myself, find, to learn new things, to find new challenges and to actually achieve whatever I have put my mind to. yeah, imposter syndrome is my best friend.

Philippe (38:10)
That's a very interesting way to put this, you position is my best friend. okay. That's really interesting. I guess like what is this something, you know, that's really. That you learn about yourself that you didn't know, you know, when you started this, this, startup journey.

Amira Gheraselgoum (38:29)
A lot of things, I guess my willpower. I never really thought about that before, but I'm not someone that gives up. And I guess if you don't have that mindset, it's going to be really difficult to be a founder of a startup. even the founder of Canva, she explained how many notes she received.

Philippe (38:44)
Mmm.

Amira Gheraselgoum (38:51)
And until I was facing the first very direct no, I was not really prepared to that. And I thought, all right, that's your opinion. Someone else will find it interesting. don't know. But yeah, so I found out that my energy is what brings people towards me. And that

Philippe (38:57)
Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Amira Gheraselgoum (39:12)
I will, but I will never give up. And I listen to constructive criticism, of course, but if it's just an opinion, if it's not going to bring me anything, then it's just an opinion. I'm going to put it on the side and keep on going.

Philippe (39:27)
Very interesting. So what do you think is the most important thing that founders should have?

Amira Gheraselgoum (39:32)
I jokingly said, if you want to be a founder, you better be deaf. you have no idea how many people will tell you that your idea is never going to work and things like that.

Importantly, I guess if you want to be a founder with a healthy mindset and a healthy body and a healthy life You've got to have organization like you've got to be very very organized and also I know you said only one thing but you have to have a circle of people that support you but if you don't have it just keep on going this is Exactly what I was explaining before you might not have your support system on day one. You'll find it along the way

Philippe (40:10)
Hmm. And when you talk about circle of people, like what's your circle of people like support? Like how did you create that?

Amira Gheraselgoum (40:17)
I guess the founders community is something very beautiful that I hadn't expected before. I don't know how to explain that, but my first time meeting with a startup founder, he was so helpful that I started thinking, why is he even helping me? Like, I'm nowhere, I just have an idea.

At this stage, I'm nobody, have nothing, I don't have the prototype that I have now or anything, I just have an idea. But he really helped me out into first shaping the first stages and steps that I had to take. And this happened then multiple times with a lot of different startup founders. And none of them had anything to win from helping me out back then. But I started understanding along the way, that they've all been through this struggle. The struggle of, have no idea what I'm doing, I have no idea where this is going to take me, it might work, it might not work, but I'm going to follow my dream anyways.

And now when I'm contacted by new startup founders, I'm the same way that they, I'm acting the same way they did before. I'm like, so cute. I'm going to help them up. Maybe I can, you know, I can guide someone to get their dream, to make their dream come true. I don't know.

Philippe (41:38)
Yeah. No, that's

really true. Like, uh, I think people like believe that, we all know everything. Uh, but actually like we are in the same, like in the same case is like, we're just going through the flow, like, uh, and we just learning as we go. Right. So that's, um, that's so true. Um, I guess like, what do you, what is something that you wish you had when you started your journey?

Amira Gheraselgoum (42:07)
I have a co-founder now. He's really good at business development and I wish I had him for the last couple of months because you start your idea of a startup and you're thinking, it's going to be easy. I'm going to do this and that. And then you realize that there's a lot of things that you don't know.

Philippe (42:09)
right, yeah cool.

Mm-hmm.

Amira Gheraselgoum (42:29)
you don't know what you don't know. So every time I talk to him, he's asking me questions and I'm like, I don't know. I wish I had him from day one. There's a lot of people start with a co-founder for me, took me a little bit of time to find a co-founder that I trusted because we're handling very sensitive data. I don't want it to be in anyone bad hands.

Philippe (42:50)
Yeah.

Amira Gheraselgoum (42:51)
So yeah, I wish I had him to advise me on all the financial side of the business because I'm a very technical person. As I said, I'm an AI engineer. I can do coding, I can go through diets, I can create diets, but I am not someone that is an expert in the financial or investment side of the business.

Philippe (43:13)
Hmm.

Gotcha. Gotcha. Have you got, have you guys got, you know, investment and like, you know, fundings from, for this, for this, for this startup?

Amira Gheraselgoum (43:22)
He's working on it.

Philippe (43:22)
You better work on that if you better get to that.

Amira Gheraselgoum (43:27)
I'm actually super excited about that because I was already pitching and doing all the work. And as I said, it was always difficult for me to really answer the financial questions because it's not my area of expertise. But now we have someone that is very strong in that we worked a lot together and all of the partners that I have at the moment in this company are

people that didn't just come out of anywhere. They were there through the journey, but they were also living their own journey that aligns perfectly with the goals of the startup. So that's why I'm really relieved to have these two people with me. And I think we can make a really nice, yeah, a really nice.

Philippe (44:05)
Mm-hmm.

Nice. Very

good. Okay. So you know, what is one piece of advice you would have for a few, some of it is that's usually the last question I ask in the pods. Yeah. What would you say like

Amira Gheraselgoum (44:22)
One piece of advice for a future founder.

Philippe (44:23)
Yeah.

Amira Gheraselgoum (44:24)
Schedule your time and create a Don't think too much about your emotions. Cry in a corner if you have to, but still follow the plan.

Philippe (44:34)
I think this is short and sweet and I think like I've had over saying that as well. It's like just follow the plan. Like your emotion will dictate something else, but the plan is usually the right way.

Amira Gheraselgoum (44:47)
Yeah, that's also what I learned from bodybuilding. Everyone was asking me, but were you hungry? I was like, of course I was hungry. I was eating like an eight years old kid and I had to fight against my own body telling me, you know, we can ruin it all and just have chocolate.

Philippe (44:52)

Oh my God, that's true. Um, that's, I have a last game for you and this is a little deck of cards that I have. Um, and there's 20 cards and there's each card has just a random question, um, that, know, you can answer hopefully. Um, and so if you want to pick a number from zero, I mean, not zero from one to 20, so we can pick a card here.

Amira Gheraselgoum (45:30)
18.

Philippe (45:31)
18.

Cool, cool,

What do other people tend not to understand about you?

Amira Gheraselgoum (45:35)
Me as a person?

Philippe (45:36)
Yes.

Amira Gheraselgoum (45:36)
why I wake up at 4am. That's the question that I receive every single day.

Philippe (45:40)
So you wake up at 4 a.m.

Amira Gheraselgoum (45:42)
Yeah, I wake up at 4 a.m. go to sleep at 9 p.m.

Philippe (45:46)
That's good. I wish I could do that as well. So I...

Amira Gheraselgoum (45:49)
And there

is.

Philippe (45:52)
So is this part of your training and it's like, you know, 4 a.m. or is it just like normal?

Amira Gheraselgoum (45:56)
No.

So I've adapted this a little bit like a few months ago and I realized actually I started this a few years ago and then I stopped it and then I got back on it and whenever someone asks me but why the hell do you wake up at 4am like what do you do and I'm like at 4am no one sends you invoices to pay. This is the reason why I wake up at 4am. That's a real reason more seriously.

Philippe (46:14)
Hahaha!

Amira Gheraselgoum (46:21)
you need a time to be creative and on your own without any distraction. And nowadays we have a lot of distractions. And I started waking up at 6am, but then I had to do a lot of things and 9am comes very fast. And then you receive a lot of emails and you have to respond to that. And then I started waking up at 5am, still was not working. And then I started waking up at 4am and I was like, here we go. 4am, nobody disturbs you, there is no distractions, you have the time to wake up slowly, to have your first meal without worrying about anything, then you can start working on your project or go to the gym. But another thing is that you can listen to your body when you wake up at 4am. Because when I wake up at 4am, if my body is telling me I'm tired, not I'm lazy, but I'm tired,

Philippe (47:13)
Yeah.

Amira Gheraselgoum (47:14)
Like, you can sleep two more hours, you're still gonna wake up at 6 a.m. You're still gonna be ahead of time. You don't need to rush or anything.

Philippe (47:22)
Interesting. Interesting. Okay. And what do you do when you wake up at four? Do you like straight up work or like, do you actually do like go to gym or like what's your routine?

Amira Gheraselgoum (47:34)
No, so I wake up and then I have to do a few things for my trainers like waiting myself and sometimes I take pictures but it's not the case anymore because I'm in off season. But also I just I'm obsessed with my morning oats so I start making my oats, have breakfast, I have a treadmill that is right under...

Philippe (47:41)
Okay.

Amira Gheraselgoum (47:55)
my laptop right here and then I can use my treadmill to walk and call my family at the same time. So I'm walking on my treadmill calling my family that are overseas. So it's the best time for them because I still haven't received any invoice so I'm in a good mood.

Philippe (48:11)
Hahaha!

Amira Gheraselgoum (48:12)
They're about to sleep so they don't talk for too long. It just depends. I basically listen to whatever I want to do or whatever I feel like doing because there is no rush at 4 a.m. That's the most important is that there is absolutely no rush when you wake up at 4 a.m. because you can even go back to sleep. You're still going to be ahead of time to get to your meeting at 9 a.m. and looking refreshed and happy.

Philippe (48:23)
Mm-hmm.

Nice, nice, nice. I love that. Well, thanks, Samira. It was so lovely to have you here and you've shared some really interesting things and definitely think will help other founders. So thank you again for joining the pod.

Amira Gheraselgoum (48:53)
Well, thank you for having me and I wish you all the success and I hope to come back soon with the app.

Philippe (48:58)
Yeah.

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